### Dave Lawton REPLICA: (page created at November 2007 Update)
## Mars 2004, First Meyer’s Public Replica, by Dave Lawton, Extracts from downloadable pdf file: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3079.0;attach=12355
I used 304 ss tubes 13cm length, outer tubes 25mm diameter, 1mm wall, inner tubes 22mm diameter, 1mm gap spaced with plastic tiwraps. They were mounted on a acrylic disc which had holes cut to match so the outer tube was a tight fit also set in epoxy. It was then mounted on spacers and screwed with ss screws to the screw on base. Also wrapped a copper wire coil which is hidden by the lower plastic coupler to sync the protons and see what effect that has, a bit like a proton precession magnetometer.
Welded ss cheese cutter wire to bottom of each tube using a car battery, works well it you are quick ! The case was made up from two 4inch diameter waste pipe couplers with two screw on end cap I bought from a builder merchant for about L7. The clear 12 inch Polycarbonate tube cut to size was L26, … gllued with polyzap to secure. I need to design a multiplexer switcher next for it and also condition each tube before use
… I still experimenting with the Tesla cell and have used many configurations to drive it including Meyer VIC. I am begining to finalise a circuit. … 2n3055 power transistor in common collector mode. This is driven from a 555 timer at frequency of 11KHz with a Mark/Space 78%, the timer is buffered with a couple of low power transistors. … To get results the tubes have to be conditioned over time, it is an alchemical process, a film is formed on the surface, that is only one of the key processes going on.
Hi, for those who have tried to replicate the xogen.com patent this may be of interest. Here are my test results that show the xogen claims are true.
Gas = 137cc, Current true RMS = 0.1875Amps, Time = 21mn, Volt across Cell true RMS = 1.5V + 2.4V Cell Potential = 3.9V, Power = 0.73Watt. Hydrogen = 91.3cc, Oxygen = 45.7cc. By Faraday calcs for current 0.1875A @ 21 minutes = Hydrogen=27.7cc and Oxygen=13.8cc
Compared with Faraday calcs we have 3 times more GAS. Xogen claim 3 times more Gas, this replication backs that claim up.
… Watts = True RMS current 0.1875A x 3.9V= 0.73125 Watt ; Waveform accross cell = square wave, frequency 11.33 Khz, duty cycle Mark 78%, space 22%.
… Tubes spaced with pieces of plastic tywrap to give 1mm gap. As regars to Xogen patent, that works but I don’t like the design and have improved the output by using a medium power transistor BUX87P forming a Darlington pair with the 2n3055 Transistor but in common collector mode to give a low impedance output. I have pics and a video of my Test Cell on icube forum if you are interested: http://www.icecubenetwork.com/files/watercar/non-commercial/dave/
… Ran a straigth DC test to compare: for 480secs @ 300mA and 4.2Volts and produced 25cc of Gas ; by Faraday predicts 16.9 Hydrogen+ 8.45 Oxygen = 25.35cc gas. Pulsing appears to increase gas production. At the moment I am trying to replicate Stanley Meyer’s System, I get any results positive or negative I will post them.
23 October 2004, in a post from LaserLine, p20 of this pdf file: Dave gave this to me today and I’m assuming a lot of you might be interested in this considering this is the 2nd highest viewed thread in the forum.
… A post from Freedomfuel, Oct 24, 2004: Daves comment about having to condition the cell by allowing a film to develope on the electrodes is interesting because this is what the cold fusion guys do with their cells. They sometimes use dual concentric electrodes like Dave’s one of which is made of polished aluminium. The electrolyte is Potassium Carbonate. A 12V DC supply is connected to the cell with the positive lead going to the aluminium electrode. A very thin, insulating anodic film developes on the aluminium electrode. Then the polarity is reversed so that the aluminium electrode becomes the cathode during the experiment. Since the electric field strength is the gradient of the potential across the anodised film the electric field is strong enough, despite the low voltage, to enhance the production of charge clusters at the cathode. This is visible as a pink glow in the electrolyte and if you look carefully you can see tiny sparks coming off the cathode as the charge clusters leave an ionized trail through the solution.
In a previous post I suggested that you could make the cathode a wire inside a tube for the anode. Due to the much smaller diameter of the cathode compared to the anode the field lines converge towards the cathode giving a high enough potential gradient near the surface of the cathode to facilitate the production of charge clusters.
(The next article below this one was also extracted from this file a few months ago)
## 2004, Judicious comments about the Dave’s circuit and Meyer’s RESONANT one, From http://www.icubenetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=98&start=0
You may generate H2 with the circuit referenecd above, but it does not wholly conform to Meyers’ teachings, and will not enable one to achieve the necessary resonance for Meyers-Fracturing of the water molecule. He used high voltage AC, via a torroidal core transformer. Further, his electrolysing circuit was isolated from the primary side (MDG nov07: like in Bedini circuits, to protect against the Radiant Energy Spikes, that like to fry electronic components), and importantly, two chokes are employed (one adjustable) to achieve a special resonance condition when coupled with the concentric tube capacitors (WFC’s). Resonance is the key to the whole matter, and without the chokes, which are absent in the above circuit, no resonance is possible (MDG nov07: without choke, no back EMF = no Radiant Energy).
Meyer’s patent link http://waterfuelcell.org/userupload/2/wo9207861a1.pdf
… The resonance frequency depends on the gap between the plates, composition of the water, tube length, and the inductors you use.
Capacitance of a given WFC may be calculated using standard equations: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/electric/capcyl.html , and you can get an idea of the pulse frequency he used from the WO patent application, which was in the range of about 10 – 15 KHz.
Knowing the capacitance and approximate frequency he used enables calculation of the approximate required total inductance of the chokes, from standard calculations, such as those shown at: http://chemandy.com/calculators/tank_resonance_calculator.htm
This info should easily get one close to the resonance condition for a given WFC; using an adjustable choke for one of the chokes is of high utility.
MDG feb07: Personnal Remark: It seems that Stanley Meyer was using John Bedini’s concept of short pulsed DC current in coils, like in his patents where John uses coils and batteries as dipoles, that create Back EMF, ‘pumped’ ZPE that comes and makes the electrolysis job in the cell, without heat; and that seems the easiest way to produce liters of Hydroxy per minute with an input of less than a Watt …
Off course the pure resonance of a volume of water could also be found, applied directly to this water, like in Mateiro electrolysis, or John Keely’s experiments for example through sound waves, but it looks much more difficult, because of much more parameters involving, and always changing (ex. temperature, acidity, volume total, …), and may be the need of multiple waves sent simultanously.
I used to test this kind of Dave/Hydrostar/Chemelec circuit, sending pulsed current to the electrolysis plates/pipes, and only produced this mysterious white powder droping to the bottom of the cell … but no extraordinary gas production; I think it is because of the poor precision in adjusting the frequencies of this kind of circuit. But this powder is already an interresting fact that should motivate to go further in experimenting …
A bit of Maths: Dave reported the production of : GAS = 137cc; CURRENT TRUE RMS = 0.1875 Amps ; TIME= 21 Min ; VOLTS ACROSS CELL TRUE RMS=1.5Volts+2.4 Volts Cell Potential =3.9 Volts ; POWER WATTS =0.73
That gives: 137 cc of gas / 21 minutes = 6.52 cc of gas / min with 0.73 W of power. 1 Watt of power would give 6.52 / 0.73 = 9 cc of gas/min
If we compare this production with our standard 2×6 cells in serie, straight DC electrolyser, described above, giving 1 L of gas per minute for 210W of power (15 Amp x 14 Volts),
We can appreciate the difference of production, because for 210 W of power, Dave’s cell should produce 1.89 Liter of gas per minute ; what is 1.89 more than our already efficient straight DC apparatus, so it’s almost 2 times more efficient with it’s design and adjusted pulsed DC … End of Remark.
=> Comment from hartiberlin, http://youtube.com/user/hartiberlin, on youtube’s video tittled ‘D. Lawton Meyer Replication Test 2 -Tap Water’ : Hi great cell ! Do you already get below 2.4 Watthours of energy input for 1 Liter HHO gas ? If yes, you are overunity ! Please come to overunity dot com to discuss your technology. Many thanks. Regards, Stefan. ( admin of overunity dot com )
# Dave said also (on the same thread as above):
– Hi Simon , The circuit is a 555 as a astable but with steering diodes so as to create a squarewave output with variable mark space ratio. The timing capacitor on pin 2 need not be as this. I play with it adding other caps as I experiment also I use a inductor in the – drive connection on the tube. The inductor used was about 100 turns 26 swg copper wrapped on a 1/2 ferrite core when the frequency is right you have a reactive pulse as the field collapses, this is seen as a spike (MDG nov07: That’s called the back EMF, and it has a higger voltage than the original voltage applied).
An add on can be another 555 standed astable circuit with its output connected to pin 4 of the 555 so to toggle it on and off. The 555 s can be run from 12v but the mosfet can be 35v. Best Regards Dave
– Hi Simon, First step is with new tubes is to clean with a detergent ie washing detergent, this will remove any film which bubbles cling to, it will act as a wetting agent. I then run the reacter in short bursts say 5 to 15 mins, remember you need to vent the gas outside. I have done this over a few days until you build up a polarization on tubes so that it looks like a battery , my tubes have a potentional of about 2.2 volts across them that is for two in parallel. hope this helps, Best Regards, Dave.
– No nothing to do with the Hydrostar just a choke in series the same as Stan Meyer`s method. The Hydrostar ferrite in my opinion is nonsense because the flux will all be contained in the core. There seems to be a bit of fog about this I think the idea came from proton precession magnetometers, the angle of the precession of the hydrogen protons can be brought into phase on application of a magnetic pulse. Best Regards, Dave.
– Yes you can do without a gate resistor, but if you do and remove the drive the fet buz350 will stay switched on, in a test circuit I can do without that. And viceversa you can still obtain the same amount of current as without a resistor by increasing the mark pulse .
– Hi Gary What you are saying is true. “The Real Problem in Answering your Question is What water was he Using. Conventional Tap water is Quite Low in Resistance. Distilled water is Higher in Resistance. Water with Baking Soda is Really Low Resistance”. But in practice the space is filled with gas bubbles, on switch on the cell will draw a couple of amps, you get a high speed flow of gas. The trick is to back off the current, if you get it right you will see high voltage spikes of a few hundred volts across the cell. Best Regards, Dave.
– … what I found is that a few amps of current is needed to condition the cell. When conditioning is completed you can back off the current. I saw a good idea somewere of someone using a modified power converter, if you can get it off the shelf use it, I think it was using a pulse width modulator chip KA3525A Fairchild driving Fets to high frequency transformer. Thats the way I am going at the moment. The nice thing about this chip is that it has a shut down pin for the relaxation time as in Stan Meyers circuit..Only using one choke at the moment, still exploring other posibilities..Best Regards Dave
– This may be of interest to John, its a test I did last year using Kanarev`s information:
Hydrogen Water Fuel Cell Results Using Kanarev’s Data;
Modern Electrolyzers consume 4 .0kWh per cubic meter of this gas. When one cubic mete of hydrogen is burnt,3.55 kwh of energy is released.
One litre of hydrogen weighs 0.09 gram:One litre of oxygen weighs 1.47 g. It means that it is possible to produce 111.11/.09=1234.44 liters of hydrogen and 888.89/1.47=604.69 litres of oxygen from one litre of water.One gram of water contains 1.23 litres of hydrogen
Energy consumption for the production of 1000 litres of hydrogen is 4 kWh and for one litre 4Wh.It is possible to produce 1.23 litres of hydrogen from one gram of water,1.23×4 =4.94Wh is spent for hydrogen production from one gram of water.
Instruments and Equipment used :
Experimental low current wfc ; filled with tap water; Stop watch ; Scales type Satrue model SB-200 200g 0.1 gram steps Avo Mk 9 Test Meter ; Precision Gold model Wgo20 Digital Test Meter; Racal Dana True RMS Voltmeter model 9300 ; Hameg Oscilloscope model 203-5 ; Tektronix 547 oscilloscope ;
The water fuel cell was pulsed at 6 Khz Square wave 50:50 duty cycle.
Duration of test in min. = 60 ; RMS Voltage V = 7.5 ; Ampmeter I, amperes = 0.06 ; Power P,watts hour (P=VxIxmin/60) 0.45 ; Mass of wfc in grams = 106.9 ; Mass change in grams m = 0.4 ; Evaporating water mass me, = 0.04 ; Mass of water split into gasses, m-me = 0.36 ; Existing energy consumption Wh/g water = 4.94 ; Released hydrogen quantity 0.36×1.23×0.09= 0.03985 ; Energy content of produced hydrogen (W=0.03985×142/3.6)= 1.57186 ; Energy Efficency (Wx100/P) % )= 349 %
Energy Efficency of this WFC is 349 % or overunity ; Date of Test : 15 June 2004 Done by D. Lawton
– This is trying to replicate Stan Meyers method of driving a WFC using a car alternater as in US Patent 4,798,661 Fig 5 “Pulse voltage frequency generator”. Also shown in the UK channel 4 documentary “IT Runs On Water”. There is clip of this on the web site wasserauto.de showing the alternator and wfc. The alternator input being pulsed by The rotary pulse generator. I think it was a bit economical with the truth although it showed less than an amp into the alternator there was no mention of the current into the cell.
The setup I used was a modified alternator, cut the connections to the rectifier stack and regulater and made three new connections to the phases which were brought out to a new set of rectifiers and wired up as fig 5 in above patent.
The current being drawn by the cell was 4.5 amps average.The driver I used was a power fet with a 555 timer generator to drive the rotor of the alternator. The Scopeshot shows the waveforform across the cell, 20 volts peak. Frequency 500hz, pulsed at 2 Hz. My power supply to the driver was at 12 volts and a input to alternator rotor 800 milliamps average. Best regards, Dave.
# Also extracted from this thread:
– Under conventional electrolysis, the anode reaction is more efficient than the cathode reaction, which causes the pH of the solution to increase as the electrolysis proceeds. The increase in pH will of course cause precipitation of trace metals in tap water such as Ca, Mg, etc. as the carbonates or hydroxides, causing the water to cloud up as electrolysis proceeds.
In Meyer-fracturing, this pH change does not occur, which tends to support a conclusion that liberation of both H2 and O2 are equally efficient, which is in line with a mechanism other than that of conventional electrolysis.
In Meyer-fracturing, the anode and cathode reactions would need to be equally efficient, as well as about triple the efficiency of conventional electrolysis. The theory of this, to be correct, would need to account for the known aspects of mass transport at the electric double layer interfaces on each electrode or plate of the capacitor.
That’s one way to check your results. If the pH of your test cell increases as hydrogen is liberated over time, then you’re doing conventional electrolysis. The precipitation of carbonates and hydroxides will eventually cake up and cause you a mess.
The fact that Meyer’s direct H2 injectors functioned so long and had such tight tolerances, seems indicative that he wasn’t producing precipitates which implies that his pH was constant.
Also, Meyer mentioned using seawater as a water source. But electrolysis of seawater will produce hypochlorite, a.k.a. bleach, until the point is reached where there are no cations present to counterbalance the charge of additional hypochlorite, at which such time chlorine gas will evolve at the cathode. Free Cl2 is not a good thing to expose an engine to. Whatever fraction of it doesn’t react with the hydrogen in the fuel or the interior components of the engine, will be expelled as aqueous gaseous hydrochloric acid, which is hardly an environmentally-benign substance !
– If you produce HCl, the acid will eventually build up to a concentration that will destroy your electrodes, and of course, anything it touches. Maybe even your engine.
Considering the downside of using saltwater, it might be better if you found a way to use the exhaust heat from your engine to distill the saltwater.
Hydrogen won’t strip lubrication, it just doesn’t provide any lubrication. Diesel engines are designed with a dependency on the lubricating qualities of diesel fuel.
High carbon steel is less flexible than regular steel. High hydrogen steel is less flexible than high carbon steel, to the point of being brittle. If engine parts don’t flex, they break. Metals within most engines contain plenty of carbon due to the high carbon content of most fuels. In order to maintain the protective carbon content within the metals comprising your engine, you will probably have to continue to use some fossil fuel as you have indicated.
As I recall, Meyer did have to clean his system if he used anything other than distilled water in it.Coffey.
– Something curious about Stan Meyer’s cell was brought up by Peter Lindemann in a KeelyNet conference (you can google video for it under ‘free energy’ about 1:34 into the video). He said Stan Meyer’s design was simple enough, in that all it did was build up a charge in a capacitor (i believe that would be the cell itself) that reached catastrophic peak, then dumps that charge resulting in the fracture of water. This of course is repeated several times in the course of a moment (very vaguely speaking with my zero knowledge).
(MDG nov07: See below my transcription of this video, the part concerning Stan Meyer, that is also on Youtube.com)
– I can see the need for the dual frequencies when using the high voltage designs. Particularly when using Meyer’s rapid-fire pulsing. Shutting off the pulsing at regular intervals as Meyer does, allows for a settling time (or a re-gauging time) for the water to settle back down to a lower voltage. Since Meyer is using high voltage AC at a mostly positive potential (due to the duty cycle), the water will eventually charge to a high positive potential, at which point the electron flow will become thinner and thinner. To put it another way, since the electron flow created by the single polarity application of a high positive voltage is the catalyst for excess gas production, the pulsing has to be shut off on a regular basis to allow the water to regain its lost electrons.
But in the low voltage AC designs, the low voltage AC current is allowed to make a complete circuit, so that electrons are fed into the water as fast as they’re removed. Thus, there is no reason for a re-gauging period since the water is constantly getting all the electrons it needs to maintain the electron flow. The water also remains at an overall potential that’s fairly close to zero volts.
So, if one uses the pulses of the three phases of an alternator, one shouldn’t need any timers at all.Coffey.
– I know a patent has been applied for on a device that uses two radio frequencies to fracture water. The guy uses both a UHF and a VHF frequency to do the job. RF being what it is, the effect only takes place on the surface of the water. In order to create more surface area, he uses a spray nozzle to create a mist inside the reaction chamber. He also heats the water to near boiling.
Seems to me that Stan Meyer used a pulsating magnetic field and LED light at certain wavelengths to augment production. I know he used a pulsating magnetic field and LED light to help raise electron orbital paths on individual oxygen atoms so he could strip more electrons off. My understanding of the results of doing this is the oxygen and hydrogen can’t easily recombine, and attempts to bond during ignition create even more heat than normal.Coffey.
– My question is this: With the blocking diode, doesn’t that prevent resonance? You also mentioned somewhere that you could tell no difference with the choke or without. Also, if it cannot resonate with the blocking diode, doesn’t that mean that you are really pulsing the + on the water cell with longitudinal pulses and that is more important that resonance? Maybe it can resonate with the diode, but I’m not sure how.
With the pulse on, the inductor is charged. When the pulse is shut off, the inductor relaxes and its charge in the same direction towards the + on the cell. So wouldn’t the cell + be getting spiked with a frequency double that of the pulse generator? One from the initial spike and one from the inductor when it relaxes? So maybe the effect has nothing to do with resonance really but frequency is definitely important. If not resonance, then a straight longitudinal “wave” pulser? Everything is unidirectional.Qiman13.
– Thought of using a pump to circulate the water thru a filter, but have found that if I use powerful magnets at the bottom of the cell the water spins. This could be a no external energy way of accumulating the crap. Still playing about with this idea as pulse coils will probably have the same affect. Gary.
– Hi Gary, what material is your plates or tubes made from? I use t304 steel tube setup and I get no gunk. The only thing that even appears to corrode are the non ss leads that connect to the positive tubes.
Also, if getting gunk, then most likely you are getting too much regular electrolysis. The idea is to prevent current from doing that. Therefore, no oxygen can go to your positive plates/tubes and oxidize them.
The circuit is not a resonant circuit. The water doesn’t go into some magical resonance. The blocking diode should be telling you all something. No resonance. The voltage never drops to negative.
– What is the difference between a transverse wave and a longitudinal impulse? http://www.gmi.edu/~drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html ,and http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/Class/sound/u11l1b.html ,and http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/mmedia/waves/lw.html
3 very good basic examples. Unidirectional DC pulses are not transverse waves. They are longitudinal impulses. The whole secret is sending TIME IMPULSES to the water.
What the goal is is to pump the water with radiant energy. This is nothing but pure voltage potential with no current. When it is done right, you can create the voltage potentials without ever inducing electrons to flow to begin with. Imagine not having all the problems of having to restrict amps. I will be happy to share this with anyone who is serious.
– The most current test I did. I used a variable ac which has 5 amps max and 150v max. Output thru bridge and pulsed DC through a diode and that straight to my tube setup. This was only to test the cell. Without the inductor, current of course jumped up to about 3-4 amps at only about 7 volts. When I put the inductor after the diode, I could crank it up to about 25 volts and the amps were only as low as about 400-500 milliamps. Just had to see for myself that this was happening.
… Imagine this and you can all test it for yourself. Hit a capacitor at high frequency with nothing but the voltage potential spikes and it WILL charge up, however, there is no current moving. Sounds strange but I can go into details later. Just try it and you will see. How can a capacitor charge up without current? That is what you’re all trying to do with the water cell. You’re charging it with pure voltage potential and NO current. Imagine having an input that is voltage potential spikes as well and no current…very very very efficient!
I’m talking about pure radiant energy. Radiant energy ARE the voltage spikes you make. Those spikes are radiant energy with NO electrons. There is a small amount of current in these systems and that little bit is just enough to rip the molecules apart and it is pulsed so there is no steady current. On the collapse, all those molecules have access to a sea of potential radiant energy that have been pumped into it.
The radiant energy comes from vacuum energy. The virtual photon flux of the quantum mechanical vacuum. The dipole (battery, etc…) breaks the symmetry of the virtual photons and they move towards the polse on a battery and flow over the wire. The power to power a lightbulb from a battery does NOT come from the inside of the battery. The electrolytes do ONE thing and ONE thing only. Separate their internal charges to create a high and low potential at the electrodes. It is the vacuum energy from 3d space and time that move toward the electrodes and over the wires. This flow is what induces the electron movement to have current. That flow can be manipulated to move over wires in a way that induces NO electron movement, therefore there is NO current … only voltage potential.
… I am confident though about the concept of what Meyers’ was doing. Pumping radiant potential into the water with no current or at least a bare minimum. Meyer 4798661 patent has the schematic that is nearly identical to the one used for battery charging of Bedini…
The coils I’m using are 1:1 turn. 12 volts in and the collapsed pulses are nothing but pure potential spikes of about 250-300 volts but virtually no amps. Those are going through a bridge to charge a cap. When the cap is charged up, it is discharged into dead batteries.
How can that be if the turns are 1:1?
1:1 is the most efficient coil for producing the radiant spikes that are devoid of electrons.
– According to my research extended periods of water electrolysis will cause the build up of an insulating film on the plates which will cause the apparatus to heat up. The film may originate from impurities in the water such as calcium which could explain why Xogen required tap water for their cell to function fully. In a science experiment in which pure water is used the explanation provided is that Hydrogen at the cathode (have I got this right?) could combine with say Nickel in the cathode to make a Hydride compound.
– If you do a Google Search, you will come up with Hundreds of these Ignition coil circuits. Most of them just use a 555 driving a Mosfet.
But if the Purpose of this is to Produce hydrogen through Electrolysis, I suggest you stick with Low Voltage and a PWM Circuit. Even Though you might have a High Voltage coming out of that Ignition Coil, You will NOT have High Voltage going through the Cell. The Relatively Low Resistance of the cell, Verses the Very Low Current of that High voltage will Pull the actual voltage down to no more than your voltage is now. Probably even Lower. “Basic Ohms Law”. Take the Output from an Ignition Coil, Place it across even a Small Flashlight bulb. It will NOT Light the Bulb. And if you put a Meter Across it to measure the Voltage it will be Almost Nothing.
(MDG nov07: In the case of Stan Meyer, the electrolysis cell is used like a capacitor, with pure as possible water as DIELECTRIC, so IT HAS A STRONG RESISTANCE to electron flow, until the breakdown level is reached … so may be an ignition coil used as step up transformer, to send high voltage pulses in a choke/coil/bifilar coil is a GOOD IDEA … )
– One of the Reasons for Pulsing is to give Allowance for the Bubbles to Rise, Allowing for better Conduction in the Solution.
– hydrotech wrote:I am producing enough gas to run my motorcyle 75% on water through 12v 5 amp battery without any battery or engine problem. I suppose this is what everybody wants, it should serve your purpose without creating much problem. And i can tell you that through your electrolyser also it can be run . Why do people tend to forget to modify their engines parts for the cell to work correctly. I would be further uploading more details regarding the gas production methods. According to my plans if i use a circuit like yours along with the present system i dont know how much gas can be produced, but that would really be immense ; really enough gas to power a car solely on HYDROXY GAS Maybe something like what Daniel Dingel is doing . HYDROTECH . TAUFIQUE A KHAN.
(MDG nov07: motorbikes can save easily a lot of fuel with a very small electrolyzer, as written above ; and I have run one motorbike on hydroxy only, but at fix place, with a small electrolyzer, and starting on hydroxy was not possible ; also have a friend that can run his Virago 500cc on Hydroxy only, shutting of the fuel income, at fix speed on the road, at 80 km/hour, the rest of time he saves an average 50%. All that is with simple DC electrolysis)
– I think that I may have figured out the function of the torroidal coil in Daves cell and which first appeared in the Xogen patent. I never believed that it had anything to do with changing the proportion of Ortho to Parahydrogen. My hypothesis is that the coil acts as an antenna to focus energy from the environment and improve the efficiency of the electrolysis. I reached this conclusion after reading about two ‘free energy’ scams on the internet which use torroidal coils as antennas for the wireless transmission of electrical energy. It was Tesla who first demonstrated the wireless transmisson of energy using longitudinal/scalar waves from a spherical antenna. Later in the 1930s a Tesla fan demonstrated an electric car powered from a remote transmitter using the same techniques. Any type of coil can be used as antenna if it does not produced an induced emf from a changing magnetic field. This is because these longitudinal/scalar electric waves do not contain a magnetic field vector. Other types of coil you could use are caduseus coils and bifalar wound coils shorted at one end.
– Yes a Coil can act as an antenna, But Typically it works best if it Open Ended and at a Resonant point of the Origional Frequency. If a Closed circuit it can Radiate Electromagnetic Energy, basically an Air Core transformer sending it into another coil.
– I’ve been following Daves cell for a while now in the shadows and looking at qiman13’s developments as well (recently banned) and I am deffinetly liking Daves setup being solid state as apposed to bedini’s wheel of magnets over a coil.
– I will do some DC Pulse experiments with just 926Hz based on Mateiro specs. Dinu http://www.oumachines.com/
– The Meyers cell seemed a little complicated until I recenlty watched the Peter Lindemann video on free energy devices. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6183263096342406828&q=chemalloy ; Forward the video to about 1 hour and 34 minutes. He starts talking about Chemalloy then moves on to explain how Meyer’s cell works. You can find the video here: http://www.icubenetwork.com/files/watercar/non-commercial/dave/videos/Wfcrep.WMV ; Make sure you download the file and don’t stream it, so click Save As…
(MDG nov07: See article below on this video, from Youtube.com)
## Meyers water cell, by the very very good panacea-bocaf.org website: http://panacea-bocaf.org/Meyerswatercell.htm
Meyers hydrogen water fuel cell technology has been suppressed due to the murder of the inventor and the inventor’s business incompetence. This is mentioned in more detail in both the ‘where they went wrong page’ and further under Panaceas ‘media script’ on the energy suppression page.
Meyer’s technology has since been resurrected by two open sourced engineers. Panacea can directly create more public benefit from their replication results from the Panacea facilities.
Patrick Kelly one of the founding members and helping hands of Panacea together with another open sourced engineer Dave Lawton have collaborated together to disclose the worlds first open sourced successful replication of the Meyers device.
Shots of the Meyers hydrogen water fuel cell replication taken from the video.
A close up of the hydrogen production created from only 12 volts! not possible via conventional theory.
With out going into too much technical detail of how the water fuel cell operates, the technology is much like Xogen’s technology – being unconventional electrolysis.
Both open sourced engineers are known to Panacea, their open sourced contribution can thrive in the granted center’s conditions which can help with manufacture and provide further public benefit.
This public benefit involves submitting the technology at the faculty level in the Panacea facility to display a proof of principle towards upgrading the current conventional water electrolysis theories towards cleaner FREE ENERGY production.
Then there is the social reform the Panacea facility will create by providing public security and access to the technology, as will be the case with all the other principles mentioned on the panacea page. Panacea’s granted facilities can also secure a manufacturing assistance in production of the units.
The grant conditions in Panacea allow for quicker public dissemination of the technology via this route.
All profit from Panacea’s role in this route must by law go back into an environmental cause, and or into charitable contributions. All the funds by any licenses created from this technology must by law go back into environmental benefit.
The Meyers technology will be studied and submitted into the centre for public security and access.
## Full details, photos, diagrams and components list to reproduce the Dave Lawton Replication, 4 sept 2006 download the Patrick Kelly’s excellent file named ‘D14.pdf’ available at http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D14.pdf
… The tubes in this replication are made of 316L grade stainless steel, five inches long although Stan’s tubes were about three times that length (14 to 23 inches). The outer tubes are 1 inch in diameter and the inner tubes 3/4 inch in diameter. As the wall thickness is 1/16 inch, the gap between them is between 1mm and 2mm. The inner pipes are held in place at each end by four rubber strips about ine quarter of an inch long.
The container is made from two 4 inch diameter plastic drain downpipe coupler fittings connected to each and of a piece of acrylic tube with PVC colvent cement…
It should be noted that shiny new stainless steel is not suitable for use as an electrode in any form of electrolysis. This can be seen in Joe Cell construction where the stainless steel cylinders need to be conditioned through repeated short periods of electrolysis. The same applies to flat plate electrolysers, where Bob Boyce points out that no serious volumes of gas will be produced until the stainless steel plates have received a white coating, produced by leaving them to sit unused in the Potassium Hydroxide solution for a few days. The same applies to this replication of Stan Meyer’s electrolysis unit. When the power is first applied, very little electrolysis takes place as the active surfaces of the pipes get covered with bubbles which stick to them. However, if they are left for a while with the bubbles in place, a brown scum forms on the surface of the water. The scum is cleaned off and another short period of electrolysis carried out to cover the plates with bubbles again. After this process has been carried out repeatedly, the brown scum no longer forms and the active tube surfaces have a white coating. At this point, the ‘conditioned’ tubes produce the kind of rapid electrolysis shown in the video.
… The electrical connections to the pipes are via stainless steel wire running between stainless steel bolts tapped into the pipes and stainless steel bolts running through the base of the unit:
Meyer’s testing setup, picture from Youtube.com video
The bolts tapped into the inner tubes should be on the inside and the bottom of the two tubes aligned in spite of them being spread out as shown above. The diagram shows the inner connection on the oustide, only for clarity. The bolts going through the base of the unit should be tapped in to give a tight fit and they should be sealed with Sikaflex bonding agent or some similar waterproofing material.
While the above circuits have been assessed as operating at about 300% of the Faraday assumed maximum efficiency, further experimentation has shown that the inductors used by Stanley Meyer form a very important role in raising the operating efficiency still higher. Dave has recently introduced two inductors, each wound with 100 turns of 22 SWG (21AWG) enamelled copper wire on a 9mm (3/8″) diameter ferrite rod 25mm (1 inch) long. The improved circuit is now, as 20 sept07:
Circuit operation: Each NE555 timer chip is placed in an oscillator circuit which has both variable pulse rate (‘frequency’) and variable Mark/Space ratio which does not affect the frequency. These oscillator circuits also have three frequency ranges which can be selected by a rotary switch. The variable resistors each have a 100 ohm resistor in series with them so that their combined resistance cannot fall below 100 ohms. Each oscillator circuit has its supply de-coupled by placing a 100 microfarad capacitor across the supply rails and feeding the capacitor through a 100 ohm resistor. This has the effect of reducing any pulsing being carried along the battery connections to affect the adjoining circuit.
The first NE555 circuit has fairly large capacitors which give it comparatively slow pulses, as represented by the waveform shown above it. The output from that NE555 is on pin 3 and can be switched to feed the waveform to pin 4 of the second NE555 timer. This gates the second, higher frequency oscillator On and Off to produce the output waveform shown just below the pipe electrodes. The switch at pin 3 of the first NE555 allows the gating to be switched off, which causes the output waveform to be just a straight square wave of variable frequency and Mark/Space ratio.
The output voltage from pin 3 of the second NE555 chip is reduced by the 220 ohm/ 820 ohm resistor combination. The transistor acts as a current amplifier, capable of providing several amps to the electrodes. The 1N4007 diode is included to protect the MOSFET should it be decided at a later date to introduce either a coil (‘inductor’) or a transformer in the output coming from the MOSFET, as sudden switching off of a current through either of these could briefly pull the ‘drain’ connection a long way below the 0 volt line and damage the MOSFET, but the 1N4007 diode switches on and prevents this from happening by clamping the drain voltage to -0.7 volts if the drain is driven to a negative voltage.
The BUZ350 MOSFET has a current rating of 22 amps so it will run cool in this application. However, it is worth mounting it on an aluminium plate which will act both as the mounting and a heat sink. The current draw in this arrangement is particularly interesting. With just one tube in place, the current draw is about one amp. When a second tube is added, the current increases by less than half an amp. When the third is added, the total current is under 2 amps. The fourth and fifth tubes add about 100 milliamps each and the sixth tube causes almost no increase in current at all. This suggests that the efficiency could be raised further by adding a large number of additional tubes, and as the gas is produced inside the tubes and the outer tubes are connected electrically, they could probably be bunded together.
Although the current is not particularly high, a six amp circuit-breaker, or fuse, should be placed between the power supply and the circuit, to protect against accidental short-circuits. If a unit like this is to be mounted in a vehicle, then it is essential that the power supply is arranged so that the electrolyser is disconnected if the engine is switched off. Passing the electrical power through a relay which is powered via the ignition switch is a good solution for this. It is also vital that at least one bubbler is placed between the electrolyser and the engine, to give some protection if the gas should get ignited by an engine malfunction. It is also a good idea for the bubbler(s) lid to be a tight push fit so that it can pop off in the event of an explosion, and so further limit the effect of an accident.
Further Developments: When producing hydroxy gas from water, it is not possible to exceed the Faraday maximum unless additional energy is being drawn in from the surrounding environment. As this cell runs cold and has substantial gas output, there is every indication that when it is running, it is drawing in this extra energy.
This idea is supported by the fact that one of the key methods of tapping this extra energy is by producing a train of very sharply rising and sharply falling electrical pulses. This is exactly the objective of Dave’s circuit, so it would not be too surprising if that effect was happening.
THe additional energy being accessed is sometimes referred to as ‘cold electricity’, which has a very different characteristics to normal conventional electricity. Where normal electrical losses cause local heating as a by-product, ‘cold’ electricity has exactly the opposite effect, and where a normal electrical loss would take place, an extra inflow of useful ‘cold’ energy enters the circuit from outside. This flow causes the temperature of the circuitry to drop, instead of increase, which is why it is called ‘cold’ electricity.
This remarkable occurence has the most unusual effect of actually reducing the amount of conventional power needed to drive the circuit, if the output load is increased. So, increasing the load powered by the circuit causes additional energy to flow in from the environment, powering the extra load and as well, helping to drive the original circuit. This seems very strange, but then, ‘cold’ electricity operates in an entirely different way to our familiar conventional electricity, and it has its own set of unfamiliar rules, which are generally the reverse of what we are used to.
To test his cell system further, Dave connected an extra load accross the electrodes of his cell. As the inductors connected each side of the cell generate very high-value, sharp voltage spikes, Dave connected two large value capacitors (83,000 microfarad, 50 volts) accross the cell as well. The load was a 10 watt light bulb which shines brigthly, and interestingly, the current draw of the circuit goes down rather than up, in spite of the extra output power. The gas production rate appears undiminished.
This is the alteration to that part of the circuit which was used:
… Dave, who built this replication, suggests various improvements. Firstly, Stan Meyer used a larger number of tubes of greater length. Both of those two factors should increase the gas production considerably. Secondly, careful examination of video of Stan’s demonstrations shows that the outer tubes which he used had a rectangular slot cut in the top of each tube:
(MDG nov07: see specific article about the tubes resonating subject, below)
Some organ pipes are fine-tuned by cutting slots like this in the top of the pipe, to raise it’s pitch, which is it’s frequency of vibration. As they are thinner, the inner pipes in the Meyer cell will resonate at a higher frequency than the outer pipes. It therefore seems probable that the slots cut by Stan are to raise the resonant frequency of the larger pipes, to match the resonant frequency of the inner pipes. If you want to do that, hanging the inner tube up on a piece of thread and tapping it, will produce a sound at the resonant pitch of the pipe. Cutting a slot in one outer pipe, suspending it on a piece of thread and tapping it, will allow the pitch of the two pipes to be compared. When one outer pipe has been matched to your satisfaction, then a slot of exactly the same dimensions will bring the other outer pipes to the same resonant pitch. It is said that Stan ran his Lolkswagen car for four years, using just the gas from four of these units.
A very important part of the cell build is the conditioning of the electrodes tubes, using tap water. This is done as follows:
1 – Do not use any resistance on the negative side of the power supply when conditioning the pipes.
2 – Start at 0.5 Amps on the signal generator and after 25 minutes, switch off for 30 minutes.
3 – Then apply 1.0 Amp for 20 minutes and then sstop for 30 minutes.
4 – Then apply 1.5 Amp for 15 minutes and then stop for 20 minutes.
5 – Then apply 2 Amps for 10 minutes and afterwards stop for 20 minutes.
6 – Go to 2.5 Amps for 5 minutes and stop for 15 minutes.
7 – Go to 3.0 Amps for 120 to 150 seconds. You need to check if the cell is getting hot… if it is you need to reduce the time.
After the seven steps above, let the cell stand for at least an hour before you start all over again.
You will see hardly any gas generation in the early stages of this conditioning process, but a lot of brown muck will be generated. Initially, change the water after every cycle, but do not touch the tubes with bare hands. If the ends of the tubes need to have muck cleaned off them, then use a brush but not touch the electrodes !! If the brown muck is left in the water during the next cycle, it causes the water to heat up and you need to avoid this.
Over a period of time, there is a reduction in the amount of the brown stuff produced and at some point, the pipes won’t make any brown stuff at all. You will be getting very good gas generation by now. A whitish powdery coat will have developed on the surface of the electrodes. Never touch the pipes with bare hands once this coating has developed
Important: Do the conditioning in a well-ventilated area, or alternatively, close the top of the cell and vent the gas out into the open. During this process, the cell is left on for quite some time, so even a very low rate of gas production can accumulate a serious amount of gas which would be a hazard if left to collect in a small space.
## Dave Lawton, Images from Participating Researchers, The H2earth Institute http://my.opera.com/h2earthbeat/albums/show.dml?id=210633
## About the tubes resonating subject:
According the tubes vibrational frequencies, may be an additional improvement to increase efficiency, Sir Griffin also said about the tubes: ‘ They are 14 inches long and are effectively waveguides.’
# from parallel LC or serial LC http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=514&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
– stevie1001, Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:05 pm:
[…] The Pipes and conditioning: You are right about the proces of conditioning. I have to do that again when finishing my cleaning and cutting.
But there is more.Ron, we are with a lot of people focussing on the electronics and a bit on the pipes. After all kinds of configurations with coils and trafo’s I have made a conclusion. As Stanley said many times: Its all about securing his patents. In other words: CRAP.
Yes, you can double frequency with the VIC and Yes you can get higher voltage. And he is smiling in his grave, if you ask me.
In all his patent with the VIC you see less info about his pipes/tubes. But if you read well, I think that there is the real thing happening. He talks about resonance. The resonant cativy!!!!
He discripes three different designs of his resonant Cavity’s. Resonance in coils is what everybody understands and is trying with all the same bad results.Are we all stupid? NO.
I tryed to find any info or tread in many forums about the Resonant Cavity stuff.NOT much to find as well!This is also a clue.
Stanley published a formula how to calculated his pipes with care…………. I try to find out what to do with that.
Focus: 20Khz is a nice frequency for getting Hydrogen. So how would pipes look like for resonanting on 20Khz? Its about lenght and spacing between the 2 pipes. Perhaps also about some kind of form of the pipe-ending. (sorry for my poor english)
Ron, what do think about my theory after all the time you spend with this subject?(and all you other guys as well, of course……)
– h2o2go, Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:24 am :
I’m just getting into this as a project but I have wondered about the resonance of the pipes as well. One of my thoughts was about mounting the pipes. I’ve looked at lots of pictures of different setups and nearly all have one or both ends of the pipes rigidly mounted. If the pipes’ resonance is what’s needed to assist the breakup of the water molecule then isn’t everyone making their work harder by “locking down” the ability of the pipes to “ring”? From some of the pictures and vids I’ve seen, some of the best results were from test pipes that were merely suspended in the tank for testing instead of rigidly mounted.
My thoughts have been to “tune” the pipes to the same tone and then hang them in such a way that lets them vibrate with the frequencies being pumped into them. My thoughts were to drill holes through the paired pipes near the top and to notch the bottoms and then use ceramic rods to suspend them in the tank. They’d hang from the top rod while the bottom rod would act as a “swing stop” with the pipes notches being over it. Small rubber washers (or something else that won’t conduct) could be used to keep the tubes separated. To me this would allow the pipes the easiest chance of “ringing” with the frequency needed without huge amounts of power being needed. We need to be thinking “musical instrument” and not “industrial vibrator”.
– stevie1001, Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:59 am:
Perhaps you are right about the mechanical structure thing here.I was more thinking about some kind of wavepipe, like you have with Ghz filter stuff.
The voltage wave should bounch between the innerpipe and the outerpipe as if the frequency of the wave matches the space between them.
Another theory: At this moment we all put one wave in one pipe and the other pipe is ground.Perhaps we have to start thinking of 2 waves. One in each pipe.
Try to get resonance between two frequencys, like 20khz and 60Khz. I read something about the 20Khz is nice to Hydrogen and the difference should be 1/3
– KISS, Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:53 am :
Even if 2 tubes, inner and outer, are tuned to ring the same, once you put a spacer between the 2 to space them, that spacer would act as a dampner and the pipes would not ring. That would be the hanging a set of tubes from a string scenerio.
Other than that scenario…. any touching of the pipes such as standing them on the floor of the cell container, connecting them to any mounting framwork, or even together, would dampen or disrupt the ringing of the pipes.
Not saying this would stop them from ringing at all… but would effect it considerably. Stan had his set up to where all the tubes were tied together with a mounting plate.
– h2o2go, Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:54 am :
Depending upon circuit hookup, just going by electron flow, the “ground pipe” is getting the wave first and the water is the media whereby the wave propagates to the positive pipe so both should be resonating at the same freq. but with a small “delay” (or timing offset) because of the time to traverse the water between. As far as one pipe being “ground” that’s only if you connect it to “circuit ground”. Being that these get fed from the secondary of the transformer, you can leave it isolated from “ground” thus leaving the loop(s) to “float” at whatever potential is created. From the circuits drawings I’ve observed the pipes are being pulsed in one direction only so as not to cancel the effect with the reverse voltage direction.
– h2o2go, Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:59 am:
In my mounting scenario, the spacers would be on the ceramic rods and allow movement between the pipes without the pipes being able to touch thus allowing maximum vibrational movement…If it truly is about resonance, then allowing maximum ability to vibrate would require less power to initiate the effect.
– stevie1001, Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:37 am Post subject: NEW TREAD ABOUT THE RESONANT CAVITY IS STARTED:
Lets continue burning our brains cells out about the pipes/tubes and the Resonant Cavitys of Stanly Meyer on a new tread. I opend it already.